Volume 3, No. 11, November 2002

 

Interview with Com. Sukdev

{In memory of Com. Sukdev, who was martyred a few months back (see Sept. issue of People’s March), we print an interview taken about two years ago on the role of Hindutva forces in the conversion of tribals to the Hindu fold, with the tacit support of the then Digvijay Singh Congress(I) government of an undivided state of Madhya Pradesh.

This interview is being presented at a time when the MP government has ordered the immediate closure of the 30-year old internationally acclaimed Hoshangabad Science Teaching Programme (HSTP), being conducted in all the middle schools (class VI to VIII) of Hoshangabad district. As this programme helps inculcate a scientific temper in the students, through a practical approach to science it has been under continuous attack by the Sangh Parivar.

In an article written by Anil Sadgopal in the August 13, 2002 issue of the Hindustan times, he explained:

The order to close it down pretends to over-look the fact that the recent malicious campaign against the HSTP was orchestrated by a local BJP MLA with strategic support from the then Congress minister in charge of the district and DPC (District Planning Commission) chairperson. It may be recalled that the former BJP government of Sundarlal Patwa also tried to close the HSTP in 1992, but failed. It is ironical that what the BJP government could not do has been done by the so-called secular Congress(I), in league with the local BJP MLA. Not only that, this is also the outcome of the impact of the World Bank and the EU who have been directing the elementary education policy of the State since 1994/95.

The HSTP programme, produced by the voluntary body Eklavya, has been commended by the Indian Science Congress, and leading scientists such as M.G.K.Menon, Yash Pal and Jayant Narlikar. In the present Hindutva environment even such efforts are not being tolerated even by the so-called secular Congress(I). Such programmes are being termed as ‘illegitimate’; while the World Bank and EU exercise their hegemonic control over the education scenario of not just MP, but also of a large part of the country.

It is in the light of this new order, that com. Sukdev’s interview becomes all the more pertinent, which exposes that it is not only the Christians who do conversions but also the fascist Sangh Parivar, with tacit support from the Congress(I). As mentioned in the last issue Com. Sukdev was once the divisional committee secretary of the North Bastar region (as also an SZC member), where the maximum conversions have been taking place.}

— Praveen

 

Question : In the name of the Bhakti Sangathan, when did the Hindu religious organizations enter this area?

Sukdev: There is a huge line-up of these organizations in this area. If we look at history, it was the Hindu kings that destroyed the tribal republics and established kingdoms of Rajas. This began in 1324 when the Kakatiya rulers extended their kingdom here. Even today this is a topic of research as to how deep the infiltration of Hindu religion goes. Then in the 19th and 20th centuries Christian religion also laid its seeds in Bastar. But, after 1947 Hindu religion was aggressively pushed in this region. In other words, these modern Hindu religious institutions have been spreading their tentacles for the past five decades.

Q. It is said that the adivasis assisted the establishment of these Bhakti Organisations. Why did they render such assistance?

S. Ever since society has been divided into classes, religion has taken a structural form. The pujari class is an indivisible part of the oppressing classes. Besides using force to suppress the people, the oppressing classes also use religion as an ideological means to control the masses. This applies to all robber classes and all religions. Whichever the religion — Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc. — the robber class and religion are dependent on each other. If we look at history, religions like Buddhism and Jainism emerged, as Brahminism became an obstacle to the development of society. At that time the reactionary characteristics present in Brahminism were not present in these two religions, so they played a progressive role. Ofcourse, these too became corrupt later. Here we must remember that when the production relations become a hindrance to the development of the productive forces, then there is a big struggle to establish new productive relations.

Here, in Bastar, after being stuck for centuries in the old agrarian relations, there was a section amongst the tribals who wanted to break the traditional relations, which had become a hurdle to the development of agriculture. This was no small force, but one that was capable of taking on the old ruling classes. They were desperate for some assistance to bring about the change. It was under these circumstances that Hinduism infiltrated amongst the people. If Hinduism had not come, something else would have, and at some time or the other the contradictions would have burst forth.

It was in this way that the penetration of Hindutva was fostered by the rich in this tribal society. Hindu religion came as a prop to this class to realize their dreams. Another interesting factor was that even with this, the contradictions amongst the ruling classes were not solved, but, on the contrary, intensified. But, that section of the ruling classes that came forward aggressively on the Hindu plank, was not only in contradiction with the old ruling classes but also with the rest of society. Yet, for those that adopted Hinduism there was some progress as they came out of the tribal fold — which is what they wanted. But, for the oppressed masses this created new problems.

Here, first and foremost, the patels, maujhi rich peasant/landlords and village elders adopted Hinduism — like the moneylenders and the Uttams from Chotta Dongar. In villages like Adnar, Jatapadda, Kiskodda, it was such forces that first accepted Bhakti and became Janendharis. These people were called Malla Bittals (people who wear necklace). Also some people in the village who had a bad reputation and were boycotted, took to Hinduism to gain acceptability. All these belonged to the oppressing classes. Today, in the villages it is primarily these people who are opposing the revolutionary movement.

Q. In order to expand, how did these Bhakti institutions use force?

S. All ruling classes is said to be disciplined and the masses are called ‘wicked/bad’! The ‘bad’ have to be kept in control — don’t they? That is why in the name of Bhakti they need the Shanti Sena Sevadal. From the very start this was established.

Now, I will tell you about one ‘Baba’ Bihari Das. According to Bihari Das’s rules if you want to become a member of his institution you had to pay a nominal fee of 25 paise. With this, the person got the identity of a ‘Maldhari’. With this, according to their scriptures the adivasi is converted into a Hindu, and is re-born. Bihari Das takes a vow of arming all those wearing a mala. According to his rules every Maldhari must keep 12 arrows and a bow. He can also keep a gupti. In addition to further influence the minds of these new converts, these armed persons are trained in his ‘Chapka’ Ashram.

Even when our Party had newly entered this area in North Bastar, the cadres of the Sevadal (youth — male and female) propagated that after the crop was cut the people should wear a mala (necklace) throughout the day — by doing so, they said, the people will achieve salvation. Often violence was used to ‘convince’ people. Till 1994 this propaganda was taking place secretively. These propaganda groups would forcibly extract rice, dal, etc. from the people. They treated the people as untouchables, acquiring an heir of purity. Adivasis, who are traditionally meat-eaters were forced to become vegetarians by these groups entering houses and smashing vessels. In order to push Brahminical values amongst adivasis they also broke toddy pots. Their terror still haunts villages like Mandek, Matavaud, Batapadda, Addampad, etc.

Their excesses became so intolerable that peasants and even students and teachers, of the ‘Gondwana Society’, in order to protect their tribal self-respect attacked these Sevadal people in the Pharasgaon-Mandek area. The people were so annoyed with their excesses, that in one village, Musnar, the Adivasi youth beat and killed a Sevadal leader, who was a local goon. To control the widespread terror of the Sevadal people, even the squads brought them before the people’s courts and fined them. These same hoodlums have participated in riots, and as kar sevaks have gone to distant places in programmes organized by the Sangh Parivar. They would also go for their training camps to far off places like Hardwar, Rishikesh, Delhi, etc. After our squads entered the area, they were brought under control. People gained confidence and thereby saved N. Bastar from becoming a Jabhua, Dang, Baripada, etc., where riots were unleashed by such elements. Just as they attacked Christians there, they would have done the same here. Christians in these areas were at one time adivasis or dalits, and it was the dreadful caste system that made them seek refuge in another religion. Here, in some places it is the Singhal gangsters who have organized them; in other places it has been Bihari Das. They have sacrificed people’s blood at the alter of Hindu conversion.

Q. What is the impact of Hinduisation on adivasi folk culture?

S. Hinduisation has had a serious impact on all aspects of tribal people’s culture — on their living style, dress, language, customs, food habits, etiquette, etc. In essence, there has been an invasion of alien Hinduism on all aspects of their social life. Responsible for this is not only the Hindu chauvinist organizations, but also a general aggressivness of Hindu culture and religion, by the so-called secular government, and also a weak people’s culture. The only difference is that the religious organizations adopt direct and overt methods, while the others exert an indirect and subtle influence.

Today, on the one hand we find that the Hindu feudal institutions are establishing a caste system within tribals that had never existed earlier, on the other hand the hi-tech media is promoting vulgar imperialist culture amongst the youth. In North Bastar, unlike the south, many have been attaching ‘Ram’ at the end of their name. They think this to be highly respectable. The innocent tribals are being fooled to add this to their names. We do not see such tails added to the names of people from the older generation. It is much more visible with the people of the present generation. This Sanskritisation is seen not only in their names, both also in their Gotra (clan). Particularly it is the people from amongst the gentry, who look down on tribal folk culture, who are the first to adopt such changes. It is they who also encourage the adivasis to change. For example, the BJP MP, Baliram, from the Bastar electoral area, records his Gotra as ‘Kashyap’. This is nothing but the Sanskritisation of the tribal ‘Ellam’ Gotra; as in Gondi ‘Ellam’ means tortoise.

Even in the sphere of language there is a similar onslaught. This is not only on Gondi but on all the local languages, particularly the tribal languages, by the so-called State language, Hindi. In the 1961 census there were 1652 mother-tongues recorded, of which 400 were tribal. Main amongst these is Gondi, Santhali, Khasi, etc. The 1981 census recorded 106 major languages, yet the Constitution does not even recognize languages like Santhali and Gondi, which are extensively spoken.

Tribal languages are portrayed as inferior, uncultured and ungrammatical. In the huge area of Dandakaranya (DK), the Gondi language is under attack from various outside languages, like Telugu, Marathi, Hindi, Chattisgari, and Oriya. Though the States were supposed to have been formed on the basis of languages, the Gondi-speaking people have been divided into a number of States. The various State languages dominate the tribal language, and prevent its growth and development. The worst affected are the school-going children, who are forced to learn an alien language, instead of the one that they are accustomed to in their surroundings. This inferiority has been so deeply engrained that even in our struggle areas, some youth give greater respect if we talk in Hindi. They themselves feel talking in Hindi is more respectable. That is why it is necessary to develop the local language, which is one more of our responsibilities. To further this our Party is making untold effort to print literature in the Gondi language. Some progressive intellectuals are attempting a Gondi script.

While this is the impact on language and studies, the Hindu religious attack is to be seen also on the village songs and dance. While earlier boys and girls would jointly take part in folk songs and dance; bhajans and bhakti prayers now replace these. Even the method of greetings and showing respect for each other has changed. When tribals met they would shake hands and say ‘Johar’ — this was a method of expressing affection for each other. Some would kiss the hand to express affection. This has been replaced by total feudal norms of touching people’s feet to show respect. To meet village elders or ‘big’ people, they must leave their chappals far off. Even tribal festivals are being replaced by Hindu festivals like Holi, Ganesh Chaturthi, Navratri, etc. One now sees the photos of Hindu gods hanging from the walls of their huts. In the days of matriarchy the worship of tribal goddesses was the norm; with the advent of patriarchy the old goddesses have been replaced by male gods. Now, worship of tribal gods is looked down upon, while the worship of Hindu gods is looked upon as respectable. We have even heard of villages where fights have taken place when ‘maldharis’ have insulted tribal gods and robbed their temples. When we receive such complaints, we keep in mind people’s sensitivity on such issues, while settling the problem.

Q. Tell us something about the ‘Chapka’ centers.

S. This is Bihari Das’s Ashram, which is on the Kondagaon-Jagdalpur highway. The Ashram is in beautiful surroundings an on the banks of the Kakdi Bahar river. It has all modern facilities and stretches for four acres, having all luxuries like a swimming pool, a bhajan temple, and a community hall with a TV, VCR etc. To maintain his huge staff at the Ashram, agriculture is done by servants. A huge temple called ‘Jagganath Puri’, which was being built came to a stop two years back with the death of Bihari Das. He was a very cunning person, who kept figures of tribal gods, who were ‘purified’ and worshipped with Hindu rites — to attract new comers to his fold. It is said that the Chapka temple is linked to the Puri temple. His ashram has huge sources of income. He claimed 10 lakh followers; but, this was false. In the villages that we work in, about 12-15% are his followers. During the August festival, his members have to pay Rs.10-15 membership, 2 to 5 kg of rice, 2 kg of dal, etc. Lifetime membership is Rs.101.

To run his establishment in the villages he has an organized network. In every village there is a Bhakti head. Over them is the ‘Manjhi’, who coordinates three villages. Then the youth, both boys and girls, are organized into Shantidals and Sevadals. Each has a commander. The entire structure is coordinated from the Chapka Ashram.

Q. In this region, beside Bihari Das are there any similar institutions?

S. Bihari Das’s influence is particularly widespread. He has spread his network using very aggressive methods. He has spread to the districts of Narsampur, Kondagao, Jagdalpur, South Bastar, Raigad and the neighbouring States of Orissa (Malkangiri) and Maharashtra (Gadchirolli). With the growth of our Party there has been some control on their terror methods. Also the conditions put for membership could not be met by the poor, so for that reason there was a decline in the organization. Besides, many could not follow the rigid prayers each day, and so gave up the mala.

Besides Bihari Das there is also the Gayatri institutions, which have greater influence in the interiors. In addition there are numerous smaller organizations like ‘Rishikesh’, ‘Kabirpanthi’, etc.

Q. How has the Party been able to get over the negative impact of these institutions?

S. Our Party reached these regions of North Bastar in around 1989/90. Meanwhile, the followers of these sects tried their maximum to make use of the Party. We too were naïve to begin with. Though we have a clear-cut stand towards religion, we took some time to understand the depth of the problem, and so their followers were initially able to enter our mass organization. Unable to understand their cunning and tricks, our people allocated work to them and gave them some recognition. They would always be in the forefront of all work and would keep the masses away from us. In this way the maldharis, to serve their own interests, would attack and threaten the forest officials, moneylenders, etc. unfortunately, it is sad that while being leaders of our mass organization, they would continue to propagate their religion. It was only in 1992 that a proper evaluation of them was done. It was decided to remove all those in leadership of the mass organization who were linked to the Chapka Ashram and alert the masses. Again in 1996, given the gravity of the problem, a campaign was taken up against the forcible putting of malas on peoples. In some cases we actively resisted their violent actions like, burning of Ghotuls, forcible entry of houses and the destruction of vessels and the stealing of statues of tribal gods. In addition, in 1999, our Party decided that those adivasis that practice untouchability (unheard of in tribal society, now introduced by this process of Sanskritisation) in the name of ‘Katra’ would not be allowed to join the mass organization. We also propagated that there is no need for adivasis to do bhajans and prayers publicly — there is no problem to do it privately in their houses. We even stopped the practice of untouchability from entering the organizations set up by us. We also brought those lumpens before the peoples’ courts and punished those who: were creating fights amongst the people in the name of religion; made the mass organizations inactive; and did not respect the decisions of the revolutionary mass organizations and the majority of the people.

The people have basically supported these decisions as two decades of experience of these religious organizations did not in any way help solve the basic problems of the people. But, much more needs to be done.

 

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